There has been much debate in Oklahoma recently, as I am sure in our nation because of some of the comments made especially by our president that America is not a nation founded on Biblical principles, that it is not a Christian nation.
The student of real, not revisionist history, who goes back and does their due diligence, however, cannot deny the influence of Christianity in America and the fact that we are a Christian nation founded on Biblical principles. Though we deny it today, the facts still remain, clear for all to see, if they will but look.
For instance, take the speech of Benjamin Franklin on June 28th at the Constitution Convention in Philadelphia. The convention was at an impasse with much disagreement taking place, when Franklin, who by the way had been greatly influenced by a pastor in Boston by the name of Cotton Mather, rose and in his speech said:
"I have lived, sir, a long time; and the longer I live the more convincing proofs I see of this truth, that God governs in the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? We have been assured, sir, in the Sacred Writings, that 'except the Lord build the house, they labor in vain that build it.' I firmly believe this, and I also believe that without His concurring aid we shall succeed in this political building no better than the builders of Babel; we shall be divided by our little partial, local interests, our projects will be confounded and we ourselves shall become a reproach and a byword down to future ages. And, what is worse, mankind may hereafter, from this unfortunate instance despair of establishing government by human wisdom and leave it to chance, war, or conquest.
I therefore beg leave to move:
That hereafter prayers, imploring the assistance of Heaven and its blessing on our deliberations, be held in this assembly every morning before we proceed to business, and that one or more of the clergy of this city be requested to officiate in that service."
Sounds to me like Franklin thought they should trust God and seek His aid in the establishment of this nation! Oh by the way, there are hundreds of other such speeches, documents and recordings just like this. May I encourage you to do research and see. Have a great day!
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Looks like we are thinking about the same thing today. Here is what I posted this morning:
ReplyDelete"This morning I listened to a Focus on the Family show on the radio while doing a couple of errands before work. They were saying a lot of things that seemed to me to be on the right track. One comment was made that I have heard a number of times and have often wondered about. They said our country, and specifically the Constitution, was based on "Biblical Principles." I've never quite understood exactly what this means. What principles and what parts of our country's government are they referring to? I can see how a Marxist government would be based on non-Christian and even anti-religious principles, but other than that I don't see how our country is any more "Biblical" than any number of other countries. In fact, I think a case could be made that the actual principles underlying our founding are in many respects less "Biblical" than a host of other countries."
I would be more than happy to believe that our country was based on Christian principles, I just don't see how that is the case. Maybe you could help me out. I have an open mind.
"I believe in one God, Creator of the universe.... That the most acceptable service we can render Him is doing good to His other children.... As to Jesus ... I have ... some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it now, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the truth with less trouble."
ReplyDelete- Benjamin Franklin (Alice J. Hall, "Philosopher of Dissent: Benj. Franklin," National Geographic, Vol. 148, No. 1, July, 1975, p. 94.)
"Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)
"Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error
all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)
"During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)
"Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams
"The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison (Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789).)
"As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)
Civis - Thanks for your response. You ask some very good questions. Just why and how is our nation and our Constitution founded on Biblical principles? The answer is simple yet complex and will require some research on your part. One of the things that makes our nation a nation based on Biblical principles is that we are a nation that was founded to be ruled by written law, not the whims of a political leader or leaders. Our forefathers understood the nature of man from the scripture that man was sinful, and that if put in a place of power he would need checks and balances upon him so that he would not abuse his power. That is where the rule of law comes in. Our forefathers read such men as John Locke, Charles du Montesquie, William Blackstone, Algernon Sydney and others who spoke of the Laws of Nature and being ruled by them. If you look deeply into their writings, especially that of Blackstone in his "Commentaries on the Laws of England" you will find that when he referred to the Laws of Nature, he was referring to the Law of God as found in the Scriptures. Every government has 3 powers, the power to make laws (legislative), the power to carry out the laws (executive), and the power to judge the law (judicial). These three powers of government are clearly defined in Isaiah 33:22 as being attributes of God. Our forefathers knew to put these powers in the hand of one man or a group of man would be disastrous because of man's sinful natue. They were students of history and knew that when more than one or all these powers were vested in one man that the government would constantly be changing. Therefore, they constructed a government with a seperation of powers with a system of checks and balances, based upon the God-given ability of man to govern himself according to the scriptures. For 150 years before our Constitution, men in America had learned to govern themselves from the scriptures. It was their guidebook and was referred to by them as "America's Great Political Textbook." Study the Mayflower Compact which was the first governmental document written in America. There you will find it clearly stated that they wrote that document for their better ordering and for the glory of God and the advancement of the Christian faith. The first actual constitution that was written in America was the Fundamental Orders of Conneticut written in 1638 by a pastor, Thomas Hooker. This document served as a guideline to the framers of our Constitution as to what our national government should look like. It states, "Where a people are gathered together the word of God requires that to maintain the peace and union of such a people there should be an orderly and decent government established according to God, to order and dispose of the affairs of the people at all seasons and occasion shall require; do therefore associate and conjoin ourselves to be as one Public State or commonwealth; and do, for ourselves and our successors and such as shall be adjoined to us at any time hereafter, enter into combination and confederation together, to maintain and preserve the liberty and purity of the gospel of our Lord Jesus which we now profess . . ." This document goes on to establish a bi-cameral legislature like ours, a system of representation, like ours, checks and balances, and the concept of no taxation without representation. John Fiske in his 'Beginnings of New England' states that "this document was the first written constitution known to history, that created a government, and it marked the beginnings of Anmreican democracy, of which Thomaas Hooker deserves more than any other man to be called the father." Google "The Foundation of American Christian Education" and you will find a book called 'The Christian History of the Constitution of the United States of America' There you will find original documents such as I have mentioned to read and study for yourself. Enjoy - I have been for the past 31 years!
ReplyDeleteIt is instructive to note that democracy was not first found in Jewish (or later Christian) societies. Rather, democracy flourished first in Greece. It was the writings of Plato and Aristotle that inspired the Founding Fathers just as much as those of the Bible. Indeed, the very idea of "Natural Law" was first articulated by Aristotle, and it was Thomas Jefferson's love of Aristotle that brought about the inclusion of that phrase in our founding document. The principles of democracy were not found first in the Bible, but in the writings of the Ancient Greeks. Ideas of the social contract were anticipated in the fourth and fifth centuries BC by the sophists Glaucon and Lycophron, according to Plato and Aristotle, and by Epicurus, who banished divine activity from a universe explained by natural forces and taught that justice is an agreement among people neither to harm nor be harmed. The idea that all human beings are equal by nature also comes from the Greek sophists and was planted by the Roman jurist Ulpian in Roman law: "quod ad ius naturale attinet, omnes homines aequales sunt" -- according to the law of nature, all human beings are equal. It is this same "Nature" that is appealed to in our founding documents.
ReplyDeleteGood points by both Jack and B-19.
ReplyDeleteI want to be clear that I would in no way insinuate that, if our country were not founded on "Biblical" or "Christian" principles that this should be a crisis of either faith or patriotism.
However, if we assume for the moment that the founding principles are at least not anti-biblical/Christian (in fact some of the principles are not in harmony with scripture), it sounds like the "principles" in question, at least in Jack's mind, are the following:
1) The rule of Law
2) Natural law
3) Limited government
These principles are neither uniquely Christian/biblical or uniquely American. In fact, the vast majority of governments through history, Christian, Muslim and pagan, have been built on these principles. So if this is what is meant, the statement "this country was built on biblical/Christian principles" is meaningless. It's like saying the American people are biblical because they drink water and eat bread. Who doesn't?
IMHO it would be better to not make such a statement and not to teach such an idea to children. Otherwise one is settling himself, and the children he teaches up to be made fools.
For those that want to be effective apologists, I have found that college professors and friends will listen to and be put straight by reason and truth. In fact I witnessed an agnostic uberliberal be convinced by a student, and admit in front of the ethics class he was teaching, that there can be no moral justification for abortion under any circumstances. He was pro-life from that moment forward.
Conversely, if a person goes out into the world repeating unexamined Christian "group think", they are going to be eaten alive. In fact a lot of people lose their faith because they can't defend what they were taught growing up. Let's feed them something a little more solid—teaking the context a little, gold, silver and costly stones, rather than wood, hay or straw (1 Corinthians 3:12-15)
Postscript:
ReplyDeleteI ended my last comment forcefully. I'm open to hearing/discussing more. If there is something to this idea of our nation being founded on biblical principles, I'd like to hear it.
The Christian principles indeed are dutifully (and beautifully) tailored so as NOT to exclude any denomination. Many of the quotes by the founding fathers (and some popularly ascribed to Lincoln as well) are out of context. They generally refer to the problems the founding fathers had living in the cross-fires of denominational religious intolerance. What these Christian men accomplished was remarkable. They accomodated each other. They put aside their native prejudices by respecting the beliefs of one another. For a thousand years starting with Constantine's sons "Christianity" was married to the sword. These men sheathed that sword.
ReplyDeleteThere is "consent of the governed" all through the Old Testament. Tribal elders installed David. The first kings in Israel were not the will of God, but the will fo the people (God, in Judges, preferred written law and righteous judges. The local tribal leaders handled the rest). In the New Testament, whilst grace allows the governments of me, accepting the Lordship of the risen savior of the world is based on each individual's consent (Romans 10:9-10).
Although the rights of property are implied by Old Testament Law and its copycat religions, the notion that man is trouble and that sin gives rise to governments (as in Judges) is likewise not uniquely Christian. However, the notion that all men are basically good without need of a redeemer is not within the belief system of anyone with Christ as a redeemer. All religions are troubled by this error, but one with Christ as a Redeemer at least has a living memory that such a creed is errant.
The most profoundly Biblical principle is not the rule of law, but the notion that law must come from God for it to be of any authority whatsoever. The natural law of Blackstone is critically important in this regard.
Finally, the "fear of the LORD" is essential to civilization -- as Washington in his farewell address makes plain he well acknowledged. The fear of the LORD, the respect for God is the essential differnece between government that serve those who they have the responsibility to govern. Without this quality we become relativistic, self-centered barbarians.